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druid Ody Swordsman
StaffM monk rin
vamp empress sheriff

basic tactic is to release a weapon rend+hellflame+curse of the strings every 3 turns if possible, then when possible, swap rin with empress, HG midrow, BS seth backrow.

is this a viable tactic?

i was thinking of swapping ody for hwa and put hwa on vamp's spot, put vamp on mid, and put staffM on frontline

First of all, monk in the second row is an absolute NO.

It is viable up to a point, but you'll need Ody to make the combo more effective and Seth in PvP doesn't work all that well, since most of the times you'll need those mercs to do something other than attacking.

2nd row monk can always be HGd. u can have a 2nd row monk as long as u have an empress 3rd row or ministrel

and another thing, midrow BS-seth dominated PvP a yr ago, until sheriff's arrest, hallucination, odin's chain etc came along and ruined it.

i'm trying to do a backrow BS-seth so my only problem would be odin's chain. and when i do bs/seth, i HAVE to HG mid, unless her empress is already dead and my enemy isn't a bowM

Unless you have ways to counter "anti-monk in the 2nd row" strategies, it is still a no. A merc that important in the second row and you're just begging to be killed. Empress solves nothing with it by herself, and even minstrel doesn't solve everything if your opponent has the right mercs to stop you.

And I'm going to quote you on that second paragrahph, "midrow BS-seth dominated PvP a yr ago". We had a year to come up with counter techniques for such builds.

If you like that strategy, use it. I won't discuss that. I'm using magic spike for over a year now, and it's probably the easiest strategy to counter (in its entirely) right now. But I have fun while doing it, therefore, I keep doing it. And my win rate isn't all that bad. Go for it, just don't expect it to be as efficent as most "up-to-date" builds.

dude =_=

is said "midrow"

i explained the reasons why midrow BS-seth doesn't work anymore.
i'm trying out a backrow BS/seth
please read. thanks.
and as for monk being midrow right from the start, look at eurova's form. he won titan twice now, with a monk midrow

Well, a Monk in the mid-row is definitely not as safe as one in the back row, but from what I've seen in the Indonesian Titans, the midrow Monk isn't getting sniped or killed very quickly. I think that with the addition of Pegasus gears, the patch that reduced everyone's damage, and the job damage reduction that magic mercs get vs. ranged mercs, that it's entirely possible to put a Monk in the middle. As far as magic is concerned, he'll remain safe as long as you always have a source of dispel, Empress being the more efficient choice because she HGs as well as snipes. I'm not an expert, just stating what I myself have observed.

Personally, I would re-arrange your form so that when you do go to HG you don't get your main in it too. (We all know how that works out for staff(M)) Keep in mind that this is entirely optional, so feel free not to use it if you don't mind HGing your main. Just be careful of people who might try to snipe you. Also, be prepared for when Mwindo gets her purification skill. It reaches to the second row, so people can still set you up if you HG too early.


Also, if you wanted to do Beast Soul AND Seth's Will, you'd need to put an Oracle in there. Unless you meant Brutal Will on your main. If you did though, you'd need more mercs that hit multiple mercs in one hit than the ones you have now. The Puppeteer and Sheriff are fine, but the Vampire only hits two in a column. Also, with Rin and Christine being spiking mercs, the Vampire becomes less effective being a sniping merc. moreso than a spiking one. So, Hell Flame with a support Staff(M)? Viable. The BS/Seth concept? Not viable with your current mercs. The best that you could probably do regarding BS AND Seth together is this. This way, you have a better chance of getting all of the mercs on the frontline, and all of them spike. However, this isn't viable because you'd need to take Blazing Earth on your main to aid the spiking, use your main as a healer since there's no more Vampire, AND still be able to get Hex of Darkness out every three turns.


My recommendation is to pick one of your two forms of offense to make your primary, and use your secondary offense to help it accomplish it's goal. For example, in my signature is my build. My main form of offense is Hell Flame, but I also have a little bit of stun just so that more than one activation is required to completely dispel it unless they have a Minstrel present. I can also use my Sorceress to seal the Exorcist's Speed Cast or Valkyrie's Awakening so that the Monk has very little AP after taking care of the Hell Flame. The reason I'm saying this is because you seem to be holding Hell Flame and your left-clicking on the same pedastal, which means that you may have problems with the two clashing with each other in an actual battle. If not, then you're playing very well. But if you are, then you may need to re-work your strategy and determine which is your primary/which is your secondary. I wrote a lot and I hope it all helps!

i was thinking of switching mercs around to setup for BS-seth, i'm gonna have a backrow of druid-rin-sheriff on BS-brutalwill, (srry bout the confusion)

my main will be mostly doing hex and brutal will, other skills will be PO, mana shield and guard dispell

so when i'm ready to BS-BW my form will look like

staffM ody sword
vamp monk emp
rin druid sheriff

HG mid, BS-BW back, probably HG front too

also, the 2nd form won't work quite well because silence'd midrow = GG, and no vamp kinda makes every merc go squishy

If you're going to switch your form to that once you BS, then you may as well leave it that way from the beginning and save yourself some AP. Although, you'll have to keep your midrow under permanent HG for it to work.

I stated in my post that the build was not viable; my reason for posting was to give you an example of why you should have more multi-hitters. Had I known that you'd be switching your Druid to the BS row anyway there would've been no need as that's perfectly fine. Just curious, do you have all of those mercs already or are you still working towards your build?

A few words of advice before I forget: watch out for Witches, and don't hesitate to use Dusk Elegy before Weapon Rend in your combo. Witches have Mana Trap which will trigger Mind Breaker and render your Brutal Will useless. It doesn't deal much damage, and the BS is still there, but it makes the Brutal Will a wasted turn essentially. Also, Dusk Elegy reduces M.def quite a bit at higher levels/ranks, so if you have enough AP on her and no one needs healing, then use it before you use Weapon Rend. That way each individual DoT before Hell Flame also takes a little bit more damage.